The exact words of former Catalan Police chief Trapero when asked by the judge what he told Puigdemont
MARCHENA: Thank you very much. Are there any other questions? Now, Mr. Trapero, before you leave, the Criminal Procedure Act, article seven hundred and eight, in its second paragraph, states verbatim that the president of the court, by himself or at the request of any of the members of the tribunal, may address any questions he deems appropriate to the witness in order to uncover the facts subject to testimony.
You have spoken about a meeting you promote in which there are political leaders, leaders of the media, well, the, the force you led; there was also talk about the presence of Mr. Castellví.
The exact question, looking for what the precept establishes, of uncovering the facts, is simply a question aimed at uncovering those facts which you have answered your lawyer's questions about, is exactly what concern motivates you to cause or to call or to express the desire for such a meeting to take place? What message do you want to convey to those political leaders and what response do you get? That's exactly what it is.
TRAPERO: The meeting on the twenty-eighth…?
MARCHENA: Yes, there has been talk of two meetings…
MARCHENA: What exactly is it that motivates you to take the initiative to, in some way, cause that meeting between political leaders and those in charge, in this case, of the Catalan Police?
TRACBUT: The one on the twenty-sixth, together with two other senior leaders, which, I think, I already said this, right? Juan Carlos Molinero and Ferran, Ferran López, with the First Minister of the Catalan government regional [interior] minister.
Well, we had received instructions from the Public Prosecutor's Office, we are talking about me asking the regional minister, Forn, for this meeting because we are seeing, because that Catalan government position is still there, and we urge them to, evidently, the [police] force has to comply with those orders, those instructions from the Public Prosecutor's Office, and we urge them to comply with the rule of law.
We did not leave that meeting particularly satisfied and the second one was, well, of a different nature, in the sense that, well, we have already been given the court order, we can see that this is not stopping and so I speak with the senior commanders with, in that way, with the two chief superintendents, Juan Carlos Molinero and Ferran López, and I propose a meeting that I will ask the regional minister, Forn, for and that happens on the evening of the twenty… twenty…twenty-seventh.
That's right, that's it, the order and the security meeting, it is that day, because I propose to them that, well, we have to present a good image of the force, that the, of where the senior leadership is, so that they are not at all confused. They agree. We also added Superintendent Quevedo, who had not been able to see it, to come to the previous one, and since one of the elements was security, we also said, I think it was Superintendent Molinero's idea, I believe, that Superintendent Castellví should come.
I call Mr. Forn that evening, because it was already late, and I say to him, minister, “we are not”, after what happened on the twenty-sixth, “we are not in the right place, we need to transmit a series of messages as senior force commanders”, and I ask him for a formal meeting.
I asked him [for a meeting] with the Speaker of Parliament, with the First Minister of the Catalan government and with the Deputy First Minister. He said, “I'll let you know as soon as I can” and it was at eight in the morning, I think, very early, that he said “it will be today”, but, well, he would let me know at what time later.
When we arrived at government HQ, because I was not told before, the Speaker of Parliament did not attend. I don't know if they told her, or they didn't tell her, and we were sending a message, well, several of them. A first one, as well, I started off by saying that we were there as senior force commanders and so that, therefore, that was, that was the position of the Catalan Police, and we conveyed to them a concern about public order and citizen safety in the sense that there would most likely be two million people on the streets and as I said, 15,000 police officers, or 12,000, in action, so this would necessarily lead to serious public order and public safety conflicts from our point of view.
We made them a, we called on them to comply with the law, with court orders. We told them that, of course, we were going to comply with them, that they should not be wrong about us.
The bit about the Speaker of Parliament was important to us because the order to obey the law went a bit beyond the question of the referendum.
We told them that the Catalan Police was obviously never going to break the law and the Constitution, that we were not with the pro-independence project, that we were upset with statements that had been made by some of the political leaders. In particular, we referred to one that had been made, the last one, by Mr. Forn, but especially one that had taken place that very morning, I think it was President Turull, that very morning.
We told them they should be aware that we had been personally notified by the Constitutional Court and so that was putting us in a [tough] position, because we also ran personal risks.
And I don't think I have missed anything out. And in Castellví's presentation, which was after my first speech, not the report from the twenty-eighth because it wasn't there, but it focused on the topic that, well, there were, besides that general presentation, some schools, sorry, some areas, and some areas, and there were some polling stations, I think about forty of them, that there could also be individuals or groups, that, well, they had a different attitude to what was expected in most of those polling stations where the illegal referendum was to take place.
MARCHENA: Right, do the defence teams of Mr. Forn or Mr. Junqueras, do they want to ask any questions, any nuance, to what you have, any questions, any questions…?
MARCHENA: Do you want to ask any questions through the...?
MELERO: Yes, just one nuance, Mr President. I think I had already asked him but, of course, without all of this background, once you have explained all of this, the question would be whether after the presentation they made to the members of the government, did they obtain in return any recrimination, reproach or directions to guide their activity?
MARCHENA: Did you get any kind of directions against what you had just said?
TRAPERO: “Do the work you have to do”. That was First Minister Puigdemont's reply.
MARCHENA: Mr. Junqueras, the defence of Mr. Junqueras? Yes...
PINA: No, yes, yes, because my client informs me that he had not made any statements in the previous days and now if he could just clarify in what media, in which place and the content of those statements he attributes to Mr. Turull.
** MARCHENA:** Were you talking about Mr. Turull?
TRAPERO: I think I remember, I think so, I believe so, and well, I think it was. I do not know why I had not heard them, but allusion is, was made to some statements that had been made by Mr. Turull. I may be mistaken, of course, they were not just Forn's, though, that's for sure. I have in my, in my memory, that they referred to the Mr. Turull. If I'm wrong, I apologise, but in my memory, I think they were referring to Mr. Turull
MARCHENA: Right then, you may leave, thank you very much.
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